The Brooklyn Rail

The Albertina, one of Austria’s premiere cultural institutions, has appointed Ralph Gleis as its new director, succeeding Klaus Albrecht Schröder. Previously the head of the Alte Nationalgalerie in Berlin, Gleis conveyed his vision for the Albertina, the Albertina Modern, and the Albertina Klosterneuburg to the Rail’s Editor-at-Large Steven Pollock.

Their conversation begins with the current shows of Jenny Saville and Francesca Woodman, as well as the joint exhibitions of Leonardo – Dürer, along with Mathew Wong – Vincent van Gogh.

Responding to questions on female artists of the Renaissance, Stendhal syndrome, and Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl halftime show, the director shares his ideas for making the centuries-old Albertina a museum of the now.

Steven Pollock (Rail): What were the most urgent changes to implement on your first day as the General Director?

Ralph Gleis: From the first day, I aimed to connect the Albertina’s rich history with our themed exhibitions through noticeable changes in our annual programming. Starting in 2023, along with my curatorial team, we have planned all our current exhibitions, including Leonardo – Dürer, Jenny Saville, and Francesca Woodman, alongside a joint show featuring Matthew Wong and Vincent Van Gogh. We’re focusing on female artists too, with six solo exhibitions this year, including Saville’s first show in Austria, showcasing twenty-six recent works.

This museum holds the world’s most exquisite collection of Albrecht Dürer, a great source when curating Leonardo – Dürer. The Leonardo pieces are loans from the Uffizi Gallery, Windsor Castle, and others from our international network.

Rail: How do you want to change the life of the museum? With what vision did you arrive in Vienna?

Gleis: The Albertina Museum has changed a lot in its history. First, it was famous for its collection of prints and drawings, followed by varying thematic exhibitions which it initiated. The next step is to shape a modern museum that presents the collection in innovative ways while focusing on contemporary artists and relevant topics.

Our goal is to provide a fresh art experience through themed exhibitions that encourage participation and explore innovative presentation methods. Also, by bringing new artists to Austria for the first time—six this year alone—and rediscovering our existing collection.

A museum—no matter what it collects and shows—must be committed to the present. It always needs an idea of nowness, and topicality, to engage contemporary audiences. I envision a museum for the people of today, which means designing a program with an eye to the future. Art, as the main part of the museum experience, is something I believe should be enjoyable to all.

Rail: Jenny Saville’s exhibition Gaze is beautifully installed—it’s as if the diptychs and triptychs were made specifically for the space. Given her dialogue with tradition and technique, was there any special engagement with her before opening the show?

Gleis: Absolutely. During installation, we had some surprising discussions. We also had a chance to look at Leonardo – Dürer together. Rather than me commenting on the works, the artist shared rare insights, particularly about chiaroscuro on colored papers in Renaissance drawings. She even wanted to know the formula for a specific yellow ground in one of the drawings. While we lack a complete chemical analysis, we were able to share the information based on texts from around 1400; an atypical exchange with a contemporary artist.

Rail: I read that the gold used for Byzantium (2018) is from a specific tradition.

Gleis: In Byzantium, she draws on the Byzantine tradition of icons, having studied the old masters and incorporated their techniques into her work. For instance, she discovered that using a specific-colored ground for charcoal can enhance its shimmer rather than produce a flat darkness.

Rail: I recommended the show to some art world friends. Typically, one who had not seen the show was dismissive, saying to another, "If you want to look at masses of flesh, see Lucian Freud’s paintings of Leigh Bowery.” There is a double standard for female artists, especially with painting.

Jenny Saville deliberately references Willem de Kooning, Freud, and even Michelangelo or Raphael—something male artists do without being questioned. Female painters are expected to stay out of that competition. It was Picasso who described painting as an “instrument of war.”

Gleis: She consciously challenges herself amongst the biggest names in art history. She wants to share the tradition of figurative painting, but she adds her ideas to that. To be named along with Picasso, Francis Bacon, and Lucian Freud is not too bad.

Rail: In 2018, she also achieved the highest auction record of any living female artist at Sotheby’s when Propped (1992) sold for £9.5 million [$12.4 million].

Gleis: That was something I became aware of after we planned the show. In person, she doesn’t give the impression of being an art star, but rather a person deeply invested in their art, yet humble.

Rail: Returning to the topic of your new position, could you describe a typical workday for you, and how it differs from your last role at the Alte Nationalgalerie in Berlin?

Gleis: A typical day at the Albertina involves managing a packed schedule and continually interacting with numerous individuals. As I am still getting to know everybody in the museum, it is quite intense, due to the size of the institution and the team involved. While I have extensive experience in organizing exhibitions and leading team meetings in Berlin, the scope and responsibilities here as the director general present a notable difference. In contrast to Berlin, I have also had to become used to attending many social events; however, I thoroughly enjoy this new job.

Rail: Were there any controversies in Berlin? Were any artworks ever harmed?

Gleis: We once had an incident when a Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec painting was soiled and suffered minimal damage to the frame, thanks to protective glass.

Rail: If attacks increase and insurance costs rise, can museums stay accessible? Won’t ticket prices increase to cover security expenses?

Gleis: We also had discussions in Berlin about the protection and accessibility of works of art. These issues always need to be weighed and balanced in a museum. After various instances of paint-throwing at museums worldwide, we considered upgrading security, but we also want to keep the museum open and interactive. A closed museum is the safest, but we strive for balance.

Rail: I’m looking forward to the relaunch of Albertina Klosterneuburg and the exhibition De Sculptura, curated by Angela Stief. The pairing of Eva Beresin and Maria Lassnig and the huge works of Rudolf Polanszky lend themselves to the space especially well.

Sculpture tends to be overlooked by institutions as it’s less convenient. Considering Florentina Holzinger will represent Austria at the upcoming Venice Biennale, and performance art is even more inconvenient than sculpture, could the Albertina be more involved with this genre?

Gleis: It is something we think of: considering which artists can be included in our program without neglecting our roots. It’s an important development of art in our time, so why not? I imagine the Albertina Klosterneuburg’s unique architecture would make a good setting for something performative.

Rail: In Paris, Pharrell Williams curated a show focusing on female artists of color, and in the US, Kendrick Lamar’s halftime show for the Super Bowl was viewed by 133 million people worldwide. Lamar made a sophisticated, politically charged statement, choreographing dancers into a divided American flag and van Gogh’s circular penitentiary painting, interspersed with commentary by Samuel L. Jackson as Uncle Sam. Is there a place in the museum for genre-bending creators who operate outside of academia? Does your upcoming KAWS show include other street artists?

Gleis: KAWS is the focus, but it will include other artists connected to art and comics. Street art or graffiti is a big topic, which needs a dedicated exhibition.

Rail: Anne Imhof and Florentina Holzinger’s performances fuse popular culture in elite art venues like Venice, while Pharrell Williams and Kendrick Lamar have a massive global audience. Creators like Williams and Lamar, seem to be on the other side of a conspicuous gap in the art world.

Gleis: It’s interesting to hear that, as we are thinking of how to open this museum to people who feel excluded. For example: we are having a drawing show with Damien Hirst, featuring an interactive element.

Rail: What was the genesis of that show?

Gleis: We had approached him proposing to collaborate on something unique, which also continued the dialogue with our renowned collection of works on paper. The highlight will be a drawing machine that members of the public can operate during the exhibition.

Rail: Unrelated to Hirst—are you familiar with the term “Stendhal syndrome”? After a visit to the Uffizi, the French writer wrote to a friend of feeling “palpitations of the heart.” Have you ever had a similar reaction in the presence of an artwork?

Gleis: That’s a good question and not easy to answer. Handling an original masterpiece for the first time can be intense, after the limited familiarity of reproductions. Recently, when opening a box of Leonardo’s drawings, I felt goosebumps. Firsthand observation heightens appreciation for the skill and techniques involved. Those experiences are unforgettable, though perhaps not as dramatic as you suggest.

Rail: You didn’t faint.

Gleis: No, but that’s a great story. Recently, I had a thrilling experience in the presence of Picasso’s Guernica (1937)—which must be seen in person, not by reproduction.

Rail: This building houses over a million artworks. I was captivated by Albrecht Dürer’s Left Wing of a Blue Roller, from 1512. Any further thoughts on Leonardo – Dürer?

Gleis: Despite initial concerns that drawings are not very popular with the public at the moment, we chose this theme. The combination of our extensive Dürer collection with a focus on Leonardo’s works and chiaroscuro from Italy to the North Alpine region has received a fabulous response.

Rail: Are there any women in the show?

Gleis: No, female artists were rare during the Renaissance. We are researching our collection to identify these artists, understand when they lived, and to explore how they became artists in that era. It’s a major project for us.

Rail: Maybe there’s more than one thinks.

Gleis: In our online collection, you can search for various names and often find results, including figures like Käthe Kollwitz. However, we do not have works by Artemisia Gentileschi, which is something that we would like to add to the collection.

Rail: The concurrent exhibitions of Francesca Woodman and Matthew Wong and Vincent Van Gogh are an unusual set, as unfortunately, all three artists chose to take their own lives.

I found the Matthew Wong and Vincent van Gogh show inspiring, yet somehow painful. Suicide and mental health are still taboo as a subject. Are there any positive ways to address this in a museum?

Gleis: Yes, it is taboo. The biographical parallels between these two exhibitions are coincidental. We paired Matthew Wong with Vincent van Gogh because Wong strongly identified with van Gogh. If you look at the exhibition, it is so colorful and bright that their mental health struggles wouldn’t immediately come to mind. For Matthew Wong, painting was his only coping mechanism to navigate the disorder in the world around him.

One curator suggested Francesca Woodman while discussing exhibitions of female artists. At just thirteen years old, she began creating art and calling herself an artist. The exhibition explores Francesca Woodman’s connection to art and her experimental approach. She uniquely uses the female body and surrounding space to create photographs in which glimpses of her body simultaneously are revealed while other parts are hidden.

We decided to tell the story from the beginning, not from the end. The final photo in the show is a self-portrait from when she was twenty-one or twenty-two years old, with her birth certificate visible behind her. We are aware that she tragically committed suicide at twenty-two, but in that final photograph, she seems to say, “Remember me—look at my development as an artist.” The focus was not on her suicide or mental health; it was on her. For Matthew Wong, his art and mental states are so closely entangled that he didn’t seem to separate the two.

Rail: Very Viennese—the birthplace of analysis.

Gleis: Maybe the perfect fit.